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Hi, Folks:
All of us here in the Camera Division at Canon USA are getting ready to spend the next 10 days in Florida working hard at the PMA show, so time for web monitoring has been somewhat scarce lately. In any event, as promised, Canon Inc. in Japan has indeed been actively investigating the claims of banding under certain conditions with the EOS 5D since the first reports surfaced shortly after the camera was delivered to the market. Here is what we have been told so far:
“There may be cases where random noise or pattern noise [banding] stands out in images taken at high ISO settings. This is because the noise component is also amplified at high ISO settings. Various measures are taken to reduce noise, but the fact is that it cannot be entirely eliminated technologically. We are continuing to work on reducing noise even further.”
“The following shooting techniques can reduce or prevent the occurrence of noise.”
* Whenever possible, use low ISO settings (ISO 800 or lower)
* For subjects that do not move, use One-Shot AF mode
“Horizontal line noise may be somewhat more noticeable for the following six lenses when compared to other lenses, but horizontal line noise with these lenses can be reduced by replacing parts.”
EF85mm F1.8 USM — Part No. YG2-0199-000
EF16-35mm F2.8L USM — Part No. YG2-2011-129
EF17-40mm F4L USM — Part No. YG2-2081-009
EF20-35mm F3.5-4.5 USM — Part No. YG2-0268-009
EF24-85mm F3.5-4.5 USM — Part No. YG2-0299-009
EF28-200mm F3.5-5.6 USM — Part No. YG9-2059-170 or YG9-2059-179
“Going forward, we will continue to work on even further noise reduction in the development of both cameras and lenses from now on. It would be difficult to completely eliminate noise, but we will continue to make efforts to reduce it.”
That is all the information we have at present. If there is anything else, we will pass it along.
Best Regards,
Chuck Westfall
Director/Media & Customer Relationship
Camera Marketing Group/Canon U.S.A., Inc.
February 23rd, 2006 at 8:30 am
What about the 50 1.4 it clearly exhibits banding in ai-servo operation
February 23rd, 2006 at 11:03 am
If you read carefully, he says those lens have “more noticeable” horizontal lines, it doesn’t mean other lens like the 50 1.4 does not exhibits banding…may be “less noticeable”…
February 23rd, 2006 at 8:58 pm
Canon 30D…
I’ve been a Canon 10D owner for quite some time now. In fact, when I found out that my wife and I were having a baby, I knew I needed to bite the bullet and upgrade from my point-and-shoot Casio 3000EX. Roughly $2500 later (camera plus lense……
February 25th, 2006 at 4:20 am
[…] Source […]
February 25th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
Concering this banding issue, I am furious with Canon. I bought the 5D in large part because I need a good low-light camera and it is kind of like false-adversting. On the one hand, Canon has given me a high ISO camera and on the other, any high ISO image that I shoot with that camera is likely to be ruined due to this horrid, horrid, banding - which goes way beyond noise. Also, the more I have used the 5D, the more I have discovered that banding can happen any time, with any lens, and with the AF at any setting.
I traded my first body in for a second, but there is no difference.
The one hopeful sign that I am seeing now is that Canon is at least finally admitting a problem. When this first happened to me, I spent quite a bit of time communicating with the Canon support people and in those communications I pointed them to online forums where other 5D users were reporting the same problem, and still they pretended as though no evidence for such a widespread problem existed.
In addition to the banding, high ISO shots also yield a huge number of dead or hot pixels, spread throughout the image. If the image is reproduced at a small size, these are not too obvious, but as the enlargment increases they eventually become intolerable.
March 3rd, 2006 at 10:40 am
The following picture is a testing result from my own Canon 5D.
50mm F1.4,AI SERVO
http://pic.twbbs.org/content.php?id=benjenq&album=D0AB94F2&photo=69E0DC66E0.jpg
March 10th, 2006 at 11:41 am
Forget the 5D ……..I have horizontal banding issues on my powershot G5. Images taken at ISO 50!!
March 10th, 2006 at 12:05 pm
Oh and ditto to Bill and his experience with Canon Support. I have been a devoted Canon user for 30 years. No more, after my encounters with Canon Service in trying to discuss the banding problem.
March 26th, 2006 at 11:22 pm
This is a fault of Canon’s CMOS sensor system and not of the 5D in particular. 20D users were howling about this 18 months ago. It is very pronounced in JPGs from the camera and in RAW images converted with Adobe Camera Raw. Raw Shooter Premium displays much less of an issue with the banding.
To the poster with the dead pixels: this is also a common feature of Canon’s CMOS sensors. If you want a really revealing experience, take a picture of something that is very dark grey in RAW. Use IRIS to open the RAW file and view it directly. You’re going to see what looks like thousands of tiny “holes” in your picture where the pixels are very black.
Welcome to the Canon system.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:59 am
Nice reply Chuck……..UHMM…….”WHAT PARTS” to be replaced, and is it FOC from Canon?
March 28th, 2006 at 5:23 am
I have had two 5D cams and both had what I thought was destructive banding. But it wasn’t. Turned out to be moire. I do architectural/landscape work and 50% of the images had unacceptable moire. Canon replaced the fist one but the second one had exactly the same problem. They ultimately said the cam was functioning within “normal parameters”.
I was so darn annoyed as I wanted the resolution. I’ve always been with Canon. However I’m now a Nikon D200 owner and I must say it is awesome - not quite as sharp as the 5D but you need to go to huge prints to notice any diff. At least I can use every shot I take now. very impressed.
March 29th, 2006 at 2:43 am
So it sounds like lens’s that are physically shorter, placing the USM focus motor closer to the camera body are more prone to producing interference. It should also be the case then, that turning off the USM motor (e.g. manual focus) would be the best possible solution, although Canon suggests that keeping the camera out of servo ought to do the job.
I’ve used my 5D with the 24-70 f2.8 L and have had no problems yet. I’m hoping the 85mm f1.2 II, when it finally arrives, is also free of the problem.
Tough luck with the wide angle lens’s though - guess I’ll stick with Nikon for the wide angle shots (at least I can get to 24mm on the Canon with my zoom.
I still love the 5D for low light and general portraiture work though.
April 2nd, 2006 at 6:02 am
I can understand the outrage some of the $3,000 customers have about banding, but not the comments about switching to the Nikon D200. About five inches below this post is the story, “Nikon Confirms the Banding Problem with Nikon D200.” What now? Let he who is free from banding cast the first stone.
April 13th, 2006 at 5:39 pm
Hey guys. This moment I own Digital Rebel and going to upgrade 2 5D cam, but a bit confused about banding problem. Is there any serial numbers range of cameras with banding or it’s a random problem? The nearest Canon service center I can trust is located in Finland so sending cam to Finland from Russia is not a part of my wet dreams. Maybe in my case the better decision will be 1DM2n?
May 12th, 2006 at 12:01 pm
Hi, can I post a picture here. I just bought a 5D and I tried it today in a assignment. And my pictures have huge stripes! Blue and Red and not even horizontal also vertical..I think its banding. But Im not sure? How can I post a picture..
May 12th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
I try to post a link where I got a part of the picture I told you about in the last mail. I shot raw. One shot mode. 800 iso. 24-105 IS on it. And a lot of pictures have stripes… both horzontal and vertical. My whole assignment is ruined. Can anybody tell me what these artifacts are?
http://www.rca-studio.nl/banding.jpg
May 12th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
Another one here but then vertical.
http://www.rca-studio.nl/vertical.jpg
I hope somebody can tell me if this is banding!
Thanks in advance..
May 12th, 2006 at 12:22 pm
And I forgot. Iso speed settings on the last one was 200 iso!
June 3rd, 2006 at 6:59 pm
I have a different problem with my 5D. Severe blurring in the corners (esp upper left) with wide angles at large aperatures. I own a new 17-40L and a 24-70L At the widest angles at f 2.8-4 the images are so badly blurred in the corners the they are unusable without cropping. as the aperature is stopped down the problem steadily improves till it is largely gone by f 22. When the lenses are zoomed out the images improve greatly and my telephoto lenses seem to work fine. I suspect the problem comes from the sharp angle the light has to travel to the edge of the full frame sensor with wide angles lenses. Canon Canada has had the camera for two months and now tells me it is performing within specs. ya right. Also of note is that I have seen absolutely no banding with the camera though I rarely shoot above ISO 400 and I have shot images to look for problem areas in the sensor and have found it to be very clean. Am I lucky or unlucky with this camera Your response would be appreciated! Ian
June 3rd, 2006 at 7:02 pm
Note; I shoot virtually all the images on manual
July 4th, 2006 at 7:27 pm
in response to Rene`s letter, i was wondering if the red and blue lines on her pictures could be a result of `CHROMATIC ABBERATIONS`, if this is the case there are a few good tools available to reduce or remove that problem, one great tool for removing this is a photoshop plugin developed solely by a chap from america its called `PTLENS` IT ALSO CURES VIGNETTING, BARREL DISTORTION, FISHEYE, THESE problems seem to be worse on a full frame sensor and i would not be without this tool, just type in `PTLENS` in YOUR BROWSER RENE, if you have any problems locating the `PTLENS` WEBSITE, just mail me at,
voyager197780750@aol.com and i will send you a direct link to it,i am not saying this is your problem, but in this case it could be.
……. Allan.
July 31st, 2006 at 6:20 am
Yep, I’ve got these banning issues, also there is something else i’ve noticed, if you zoom in at 10 000% you will be able to extract event more information from the pixels themselves. Within each pixels you can accualy see the face of a canon rep laughing at you. Would like to see this from Nikon!!
August 23rd, 2006 at 10:21 pm
I have been shooting with 2 5D cameras for 5 months now. I started noticing rare horizontal banding on occasional wedding images after a few months. All affected images were taken inside at ISO 800 with less than ideal mixed lighting, plus (fill) flash. The banding was normally in fairly dark (but not black) areas and became especially apparent if the shot was slightly underexposed.
Then I saw it on a fairly well exposed shot (same kind of mixed lighting, same ISO 800) except this time it was in a neutral toned area, not the shadows, and it seemed to only be over parts of the image that were that exact tone or color. The amazing thing is that I shot several frames within seconds of each other, of the same subject, from the same spot, and the other frames did not show the banding (which worked well because I still had a good usable shot).
Recently I shot a busker performance, late at night with only a couple of tungsten spot lights. I got home and discovered banding on about 10% of the shots. These shots were taken at ISO 3200 and the banding was most apparent in the sky around the lights where the air was reflecting some light. The banding only affected areas that had recieved a certain (relatively) low amount of exposure. The areas of the sensor that got very little or no exposure, plus the parts that got average or lots of exposure had no problem. Only the parts that recieved relatively little exposure were affected.
I saw this same thing at a lower ISO one time (can’t remember exactly what ISO but less than 400) when I had banding in a 30 second star and sky picture that was underexposed (therfore giving most parts of the sensor some, but less than ideal amounts of exposure) and thus causing the banding. The properly exposed shots that I proceeded to do that evening turned out fantastic.
So to wrap up, I don’t know what causes the banding but I do know this:
-the higher the ISO, the more likely it could occur
-it is unpredictable, sometimes seemingly identical shots (exposures) may or may not be affected, or just a few from a series might be
-I have experienced it when using several lenses including the 24-70 f2.8, 16-35 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8 IS, and 50 f1.4
-slight underexposure makes it more likely (probably because it mostly affects parts of the sensor that only get a limited amount of exposure and underexposing will give you more areas of the sensor fitting this citeria)
-often when you need high ISO it is in low lighting. This is when you are most likely to get more dark areas in a photo so this combination is when the banding usually occurs.
-it seems to mostly affect images that do not fit neatly into the standard dymanic range zone of the sensor (images that do not flow gracefully from shadow to highlight are more prone to banding), like night shots with lots of dark and lots of bright areas but perhaps few middle tones.
I still love my 5D’s, they are amazing cameras in most respects, but the banding does concern me because what if sometime it happens on a once in a lifetime shot, or some other cridical shot that can’t be redone, or that I can’t take multiple frames of. It would be nice to have confidence that my gear will ALWAYS work properly and not just most of the time.
October 10th, 2006 at 5:58 am
Hmmm… I guess I’m the lucky bastard then, because so far I haven’t experienced this problem at all. And, like most, I do have the 5D particularly for low light shooting. There’s plenty of black in my pictures and it all looks rather wonderful…
Just thought it would be good to note that it doesn’t affect every 5D. I use a range of lenses including the 85 1.8, the 24-70L and the 17-40L that were mentioned above.
Best of luck, hope they find a solution.
October 12th, 2006 at 1:01 pm
I own a 5d and love it.
been lucky(I guess.-so far).
Haven’t had these issues as yet but oh boy it makes me jittery reading this stuff.
I was wanting to get an 85mm f/1.8 but now just wonder.
I mean who wants to spend $600-$675cdn. and not get 1st class results.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:08 am
I just got very bad experience with my 5D. I use it since September 05, but just recently got this problem.
First of all I got only few images that have horisontal line(brighter pixel that create line). I send to Canon service in Australia. They change a little part in front of the sensor, they said that part in function and create that problem.
Then I use it again for shooting wedding, but it become disaster for me because the line still there and even worst than before. 70% of my shoot on that day have those horisontal line.
I’m still discussing with canon service for solving this problem.
Is this problem called “banding”?
Is anyone know how to fix up the images that have thses lines?
I use 24-105 4L IS lens iso 400-1600.
November 18th, 2006 at 10:26 pm
Hi everyone…it’s just not the 5D with the horizontal banding.
I just purchased the 1DM2N about 3-4 weeks ago and I started getting it today with an ISO of 640. Luckily it didn’t happen with every shot but the background and lighting didn’t matter. It happened with good and bad lighting. The lens was the Canon 500f4.0 EL.
From what I’ve just read so far, it seems to be an inherent problem in Canon’s DSLR’s and I guess there’s no point bringing it in for Canon to service as it was my original plan until I read that press release at the top of this page.
November 21st, 2006 at 10:49 pm
Any knew news on the banding issue? I like the camera too, but have regularly had the banding issue when shooting high ISO non-flash concert photography (1600 and 3200). The irony, is that I got it for its “superior” high-ISO performance compard to other cameras. If they haven’t fixed it yet….I’m getting concerned.
November 27th, 2006 at 4:57 pm
“Horizontal line noise may be somewhat more noticeable for the following six lenses when compared to other lenses, but horizontal line noise with these lenses can be reduced by replacing parts.”
What doses that mean???
What parts???
I just bought a brand new 5D and 16-35, are the right “parts” in already or should I send it to Canon to replace the “parts”?
One would hope that Canon is now shipping an updated and fixed equipment since they are aware of the problem. My 16-35 was manufactured Aug 06.
December 20th, 2006 at 4:25 am
My second 5D (first new one replaced due to tea-strainer image quality) has reared an over-the-top light falloff problem. Very excessive shadowing in corners. Shop where I bought it from decided that the 5D IS faulty. Image chip also seems to be slightly off-axis (to the side). However, they (the shop) won’t replace it but will be sending it back to Canon for ‘evaluation’. Not impressed, especially as the camera is needed for Christmas shots. Maybe I should upgrade to a Brownie Box-Camera?
This may be an issue for all you other users with LFO (vignetting) issues. Don’t just assume that it is ‘how it SHOULD look’ with FF. I took test shots in the shop yesterday, thinking it was the lens but the shop manager was amazed to find it to be my 5D BODY at fault. A Monday morning build no doubt! Nearly bought a 1DS MK2 yesterday too but have decided to hang-fire for Canon’s results. May have to go Nikon although I wanted the FF. Darn it!
December 20th, 2006 at 12:06 pm
Oh yes! I forgot to mention that my first 5D had banding too.
However, it came and went depending on whatever way the wind was blowing at the time in relation to the amount of sunspots.
Yes, in other words, there never seemed to be a reason.
I did note however that if I ever did a MLU shot, the banding wasn’t there. Gone.
I started to wonder that maybe it was vibration causing the banding with an over sensitive image sensor.
I never found out the outcome of the first 5D issues. Canon tends to with-hold faults with these cameras.
Still….those 5D blacks are so deeeeeeep!
Okay. ’nuff said.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Vertical banding i hear you say, lol you ought to see the vertical banding on my 1Dmk2!!!! its been to fixation in london once and they couldnt sort it, if anyone would like to look at the banding problems i have, please mail me and i will send you some pics, your comments would be gratefully appreciated….
Kev
UK
March 9th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
I have also discovered banding interference issues in my year old Canon 5D after taking a series of moonlit landscapes.
Horizontal, noisy, red/magenta bands are evident, particularly in the sky areas of every shot to varying degrees, particularly noticable when zooming to 100%. It does not seem to differ what lens (17-40 4, 50mm 1.2 and 70-300 4.5-5.6) or ISO setting I’ve used (50 to 500 ISO). In fact, one of my worse affected images was taken at 50 ISO, nicely exposed and manually focused. This has prompted my concern.
I would be interested to know if anyone else can detect or emulate the same issue when shooting a clear moonlit sky (or comparable situation). Especialy those who say they’ve had no problems with banding thus far. If not I guess it’s off to the shop
The thing that peeves me is that the noise (relevant to ISO) is not a major issue, This is a different noise, fugly lines that have hampered some of my finest potential images. If this is truly the limitation of the CMOS sensor, it puts quality night photography out of the question.
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:09 pm
My friend lent me his 50mm f1.4 lens to try out with my 5d as i was interested in
getting it for some low light photos. Today (03/23/07)was a going away party
for a co-worker and i took a number of low light high ISO images.
I was horrified to notice a lot of banding. Not on every image
about 30-40%…. thats a lot!
The 5d is my first dslr and i didnt ever hear/read about banding when i
was looking for a camera. I was scared that something was up with
my camera body.. but before i went complaining in the store or
to a canon rep i did a search on “Canon EOS 5D ‘Banding’ Problems”
and i found this page.
Maybe if enough of us complain a real solution will rise.
For completeness my setup for pictures this terrible night was
50mm f1.4 Canon 5d, ISO 400-3200 with most at 3200 and in AI Servo.
I normally use 24-105 f4L IS USM with out any problems. But i
really havent used it with high iso.
_Jj
April 1st, 2007 at 3:54 am
Hi, I have had terrible problems with chronic lining/banding appearing on images across all isos.
I sent my camera back to Canon U.K. 3 tmes each time coming back with same problem. Tried different lenes, flash cards etc but no improvement.
As a result I borrowed a camera from my local canon agent in Ireland, tested it, straight away same problem. Only constant between my camera and this one was flash. So rented a 580ex, to go shoot wedding, same problem in the church, I was fit to scream!
I would rate 5d as an unusable camera for the professional. Also Canon U.K. and Canon U.S.A did not appear to know about this problem. I like others had to find out about it on internet. This is a terrible camera and atrocious customer support from canon.
In short I have noticed this problem across various isos starting at 100, with different lenses, memory cards and flashes but indoor shots in mixed light very susceptible to this banding.
The shop I bought it from, B&H Photovideo, would not entertain replacement or refund even though camera was sold in this state and I have repair record to show this. In fact customer service agents very unhelpful there, to the point of rudeness.
What are we poor saps who shelled out a fair whack of cash on these rubbish cameras to do?
May 9th, 2007 at 4:17 am
I own a 5D now for 3 months. I do a lot of studio photography. I previously owned a 20D. This gave never problems. With the 5D I get the banding almost on every studio shot. I always shoot manual 100 ISO Almost a third of the top part (in landscape) contains banding. Not only in lowkey but also normal portraits. I find this an unacceptable situation. Th strange thing is that in shots made outside in the dark (No flash, 800 ISO Av) there are no bands. Could it be linked to the flash or the wireless transmitter?
August 9th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
I had banding, small vertical lines across the image - called Canon, tech instant messaged the other techs and a bunch of them said “its from an external power source causing some sort of EMI the sensor is picking up”. At that point they were not aware I was using a battery. I didn’t want to believe them, so I did some tests and sure enough I can duplicate the banding frequently when I have my Quantum Turbo battery (for my flash) screwed in/attached to the bottom on my 5D. If I unscrew it and leave it in my lap…I shot 25 shots with no banding/lines. I’m calling Quantum tomorrow find out why this is happening. One note, same battery on 30D didn’t have trouble, tech said probably because they are different sensors, etc.
Hope that helps!
Dale
August 20th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
Dale,
this is a great help thanks. We noticed the problem with a Quantum Compact on the bottom of the 5. Glad to hear it’s *not* the camera.
January 5th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Nice one Dale.
That is very interesting as I have just suffered banding on my 5D for the first time. I was using the quantum compact turbo attached to the 5D. I have used the battery pack before with no problems but this time I used the 5D with out the extra battery/grip pack attached as well as the compact.
Cheers
R
March 16th, 2008 at 7:35 am
I am trying to use this pic as an avatar but it would not load? Is it me or is this feature turned off?
Me in San Francisco2008